I'm also trying to learn more about what 'is' sola scriptura and Canon formation. Again, not wanting to take protestants word on what Catholicism teaches and not wanting to take Catholics word on what Protestants teach. Also realize, I am coming at all this from a Lutheran point of view, not a Protestant/Baptist/Presbyterian/nondenom. So Real Presence, Baptism saves, Liturgy, Confession and Absolution, are all part of the mix for the Lutheran...well, most that is ;)

Something that has not left my mind since I read it. The Catholic Church says Muslims will be saved. http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a9p3.htm then look for #839 and following . Also, in the same vein, that anyone who honestly seeks God ( even apart from the Church ) can/might/will?? be saved.

So Catholic doctrine teaches the Catholic Church is necessary for salvation ( at least it did, maybe that has evolved? ), then you read that Catholic doctrine teaches that Muslims will be saved, even though they aren't members of the Catholic Church...which is it? I guess I don't see how both can be true. And talking with Msgr. at St. Stephens, he said ( paraphrasing ) not to join under compulsion, but rather let my conscience guide me...and not force my wife to join either, but let her come on her own terms.

So if Muslims are saved, and salvation is not really dependent on being a member of the Catholic Church...and those who honestly seek a Creator are saved...and my conscience says no... then the Catholic Church is practically saying *don't join*. And if I join and leave, then I'm going to hell. But what if I earnestly seek God somewhere else? Does that count?

And..and :) around 1000 A.D., attendance at Catholic Mass was made mandatory under penalty of mortal sin. In other words, -- according to the Roman Catholic Church -- if anyone misses just one Catholic Mass ( each Sunday and "holy days of obligation" such as Christmas ) and does not have that sin forgiven by a Catholic Priest, that person, which I guess includes all Protestants, Eastern Orthodox and Messianic Jews since they don't go to a Catholic Mass, will spend forever in Hell.

I understand the fullness aspect. I think many Christians long to be part of a Church where the full historic nature of the Church is represented...at  least as best we can do in the enlightened, post-modern 21st century. But doesn't all this sound like new law that is not like the new law that Jesus gave?

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A  bit of a copy/paste from something online. I was wanting to develop this more fully, but will send as-is so maybe we can both work on it, looking up all the verses. I'm working through some of the Fisheater stuff as well.

With regards to Jesus saying the gates of hell would not prevent the church from growing/spreading ( think mustard seed parable ) I don't believe he is saying it would be free from error. But the weeds are to remain until the judgement. See Matthew 13 and more below.

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***Who or Where is the Authority

The authority is not in the body, but in the Head (Eph. 1:22-23; Col. 1:18). The ruling is not in the kingdom, but in the King (Heb. 7:1-2; Rev. 1:5-6). The authority is in not in the church, but in Christ (Matt. 28:18; 1 Pet. 3:22). The church is not the Savior, but simply the body of the saved (Acts 2:47; Eph. 5:22-24).

---if the Isaiah 22, Matt 16, and Rev 3 verses *don't support* Peter being the first Pope, then the above verses would show no "sub-head" ( Pope ) is present or needed, more below.

***Subject to Who/Whom? Who do we follow?

I am the good shepherd, and I know mine and mine know me, even as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for my sheep. And other sheep I have that are not of this fold. Them also I must bring and they shall hear my voice, and there shall be one fold and one shepherd." (John 10:11, 14-16). Jesus is that one good shepherd. If one can understand that one and one equals two, he can understand this. If one is subject to Christ as the one shepherd--that's one. If one is subject to the Pope as the one Shepherd--that's two.

The church is often compared to the human body in the Scriptures. The members of the church are represented as the various parts of the body. Christ is always said to be the head. (See 1 Cor. 12:12-27; Eph. 1:22-23; 4:15-16). The question is: "What part of the body is the Pope?" Also, "How does one get the idea of a sub-head into the body?"

***Did Jesus promise to keep the Church free from error?
There are many passages in the New Testament which reveal that the church would not be preserved from error. Acts 20:17, 28-30; 2 Pet. 2:1-3; 1 Tim. 4:1-3; 2 Tim. 4:3-4; 2 Thess. 2:3-11. We see from these passages that there was to come a great falling away from the truth. In Acts chapter twenty we learn that perverse things would come from the teachers/leaders of the church. Peter said (2 Pet. 2) that false teachers would arise among you (working from within) and there would be many who would follow them. Paul tell us (2 Thess. 2) that the apostasy was already underway, "for the mystery of iniquity is already at work..." (Verse 7). It started in Paul's day and was to continue until the second coming of Christ. He added, "...Whom the Lord Jesus will slay with the breath of his mouth and will destroy with the brightness of his coming." (Verse 8).